Monday, July 25, 2005

Klingons, Gondolas, and Poker

Well, only a couple of days and we will be in Vegas. We get in Wednesday night and return the following Tuesday. A whole week in Candy Land! If you are there and are looking for me, here is a vague agenda.

Wednesday arrive and check into the Rio.
Thursday – Orleans Open 1200 NLHE tournament. Depending when I bust out of the tournament, I have a free roll slot tournament to do at the Rio as part of their Summer Fest. I hate slots, but since it is a free roll, hell, why not?
Friday – check out of the Rio and check into the Luxor.
Moving to the Luxor is important as Grandma and Grandpa are at staying there and since they want to see the baby and we want to make it easy for them to baby sit….well you get the picture. We are then going to drive out to Henderson for a family wedding and visit with all of the relatives. I don’t expect to be making it to the tables this day.
Saturday –I’ll be doing some sight seeing with family. I know for sure we are going to the Star Trek experience at the Hilton as my Brother-in-Law is all psyched up for this. Somewhat fitting since Scotty (James Doohan) passed away last week at the age of 85. I expect we will probably see a show or two and who knows what else. Some ideas were to do a gondola ride at the Venetian, catch a rollercoaster, drive out to see the dam, or what ever else the group wants to do. Hopefully late night we will be able to sneak away to the tables while Grandma and Grandpa are babysitting!
Sunday – We have to check out of the Luxor and head back over to the Rio. Our nights at the Rio are free so you can see the appeal of staying there and I’ve already explained why we are staying at the Luxor. I’m hoping to make a good showing at the Orleans Open Championship NLHE tournament which starts at Noon.
Monday – No plans yet.
Tuesday – Head home, hopefully with a little change left in my pocket.

I want to tell you a story about my Brother-in-Law since I mentioned him above. Harold is definitely a Trekie. The guy loves all things Star Trek but I think he is very partial to Klingons. I recall a conversation with him once when we had gone over to their place for dinner. After dinner, we sat down to watch a Star Trek movie (I don’t remember which one…Nemesis maybe) and after several Martinis, I asked Harold the following question:

“Harold, why are Trekies considered Geeks?”

“Because we like things that aren’t popular”, he replied.

“Yeah, but Star Trek is very popular.”

He sipped his Martini and looked at me and said,

“Yeah, but only to us geeks.”

I wonder if he knows that Wil Wheaton is an avid poker player.

Players beware

I have been attending games in Austin’s underground poker for several years now. I can remember just 5 years ago when there were only 4-5 games that made with any consistency. All of those games were self-dealt. They usually ran one, sometimes two times a week. There was a relatively small circle of players and it wasn’t uncommon for most of these games to only run 6 hours in a night. One place played dealers choice, another was Holdem, another was Omaha, and another played Big Mitt. The limits varied, but it seemed that the majority of them were pot limit.

Fast forward to 2005. A couple players and I were sitting around the poker table and made a list of known games. I am not sure if we figured out all of the as we started struggling to remember some games when we hit 34. THIRTY-FOUR! Can you imagine? Considering that each game runs at least twice a week and the average is more like three times a week, we are talking a cumulative number of over 100 weekly games in Austin Metro. I would be willing to make a bet that there are at least 10 more that I am unaware of.

Let’s think about this a minute. Now there are limit games, pot limit games, no limit games. These games have minimum buy-ins ranging from $20-$300. When you look around the table to see how much total money is in play, you will find some games with significantly less money ($300) at one end of the spectrum and likewise, significantly more ($50K) at the other end of the spectrum.. It really depends on the type of game (Holdem/Omaha/etc), the limits (structured, pot, spread, no), the minimum buy-ins/ re-buys, the number of players over the course of the night, and the type of action those players give (loose-aggressive/tight-passive/etc). Assuming that the mean buy-in is $100, that the average player will re-buy once, and that the average table has 15 players over the course of the night, we can then expect the average table will have at least $3000 in play. With 34+ games in town running 3 nights a week with $3000 in play, we are talking an industry that is putting NO LESS than $15 million a year into play……and that is JUST IN AUSTIN. Assuming that DFW and Houston are 3-4 times bigger than Austin, and pulling a number out of my ass for the rest of the State, I figure that the poker industry in Texas is worth no less than $250 million per annum. At an 8% tax rate, Texas could easily generate $20 million in additional tax revenue if they would just regulate the industry. In fact, $20 million is just the tip of the iceberg. By regulating the industry, you would allow the poker underground to become a legitimate business where game runners could freely advertise their games and players could play without fear of prosecution. At the moment, players who fear prosecution must either go to Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma, or Louisiana to play. And you can bet your last dollar that they do go there to play. Texas loses millions of dollars in tax revenue and commerce every day of the week as players travel out of state and willingly support our neighbor’s school funds, roads, and other infrastructures. Why do you think one of the biggest lobby groups in Austin against gambling in Texas is from Louisiana? Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

What are the repercussions of this? Well, anytime you start talking about substantial amounts of money in an unregulated industry, some type of undesirable element always seems to show up. One element has been the number of robberies. Austin isn’t the safest place when it comes to robberies. As an example, there were 35 different bank robberies in Austin in 2004. That is nearly 3 robberies a month. Without a doubt, banks have greater security than any poker game, and yet they were rolled 35 times. Since November 2004, I am aware of 4 robberies of poker games. Luckily no one has been seriously hurt in any of these robberies, but a couple of cases did involve minor injuries to players, let alone the major injuries to their bank rolls.

Additionally, I have now heard the absolutely worst news I could hear about a game in town. I have been told by a reliable source that there is a game in town in which you have virtually no shot at winning as they allegedly have put in marked decks as a way to fleece their patrons. Can you believe this? These aren’t off brand decks either; they are KEM and COPAG decks and sell for $99.99-$199.99. See here: Marked Decks. This is another argument to regulate the industry. While I agree that the industry is somewhat self-regulating, this is clearly an abuse that players may not be able to determine on their own. For the most part, if a game is badly run, or is over charged, players will find another place to play, or at least the smart ones will. A game that has no players won’t last very long. The list of failed games in Austin is a very long one for this reason. However, if everything else seems to be in order and you don’t know that you are being cheated, what protection is there?

Now let me say while I have found some significant issues similar to the one I posted here Action...Reaction at games around town, almost all of the games are on the level and are not intentionally trying to cheat you. You are more likely to find a couple of players trying to collude in a game than a game which uses marked decks. Still, a wise player will be ever watchful. Players beware.

So what do I make of all of this? Well, I’ll continue to play and hope that our legislature can get their heads out of their asses and wake up to the society they live in. I’ll hope that game runners will be more diligent about providing a service that is above reproach, and that players will be more observant about the games they attend and demand the service they deserve.

Monday, July 18, 2005

Talked Fast, Bet Fast, Broke Fast

I went to a no limit game in North Austin the other day and ran into a player I hadn’t seen in almost 2 years. He proceeded to start teasing me about hitting one outers. The interesting thing is that not a single player at the table had a clue to what he was referring to. So I said, “You do realize that no one here knows what the hell you are talking about.”

A player at the table who I didn’t know asks, “Yeah, what is he talking about?”

That was the question he wanted someone to ask. So he proceeded to tell the story of a hand in which I had played. Now mind you, this somewhat infamous hand happened back in November of 2003. Yeah…2003. There are so many new players on the scene these days, that hell, most of them weren’t even playing cards yet in 2003.

The thing is, time has a way to make the details fuzzy, so I wanted to tell you the REAL version of the hand:

To understand the why of the hand in question, you have to understand the opponent.

Imagine a fellow, 31ish, clean cut, loud but jovial car salesman – lets call him Bob. Bob talked fast, he bet fast, he broke fast. I had played on several occasions with him…10/20 limit, in which I saw him get in some $1500 deep, and previously in a 2/5 blind pot limit game.

In the 10/20 game, I watched him bet, raise, re-raise until he was all-in. It appeared that he and his opponent might have the same nut straight when it came to show down. But alas, Bob had misread his hand and only had a pair….I think he contributed about $120 to that pot.

A few nights before this hand I am about to tell you about, we locked horns in a 2/5 pot limit game. I had A10d. I was in late position and raised $25 preflop, there were 3 callers including Bob.

Flop came: 10, 6, 5 with two diamonds. Our car salesman leads out with a pot sized bet. Two others fold and I smooth called it.

The turn came a diamond. I don’t remember the exact card. All I know is I had the nuts and Bob bet a couple of hundred into me. Hoping he was on a big diamond draw…like a K high, I wanted to suck him in. So I smooth called again.

The river came a 4th diamond. I had the stone cold nuts.

Bob checked, and so I bet a few hundred at the pot, expecting Bob to fold. But no, he checked raised me. After that I pushed all in, about $1500 or so.

Bob called and turned over 2d3d.

I admire the play on the river, but when I come back over the top for the rest of my stack? And he calls it with a 3 high flush? Can I play with you every night?

Ok…so here is the hand we have all been waiting for.

The game was 2/5 blinds, pot limit Holdem. I was in middle position with about $2800 in front of me and spied two beautiful ladies in my hand. Someone had the straddle on and it was folded to me. I made the max 5x raise of the straddle - $50. There was a single caller and then Bob (with about $2600) on the button made a pot sized raise ($175 if you are keeping track.). Everyone folded to me and I re-raised $300. Bob thought about it and just called. The pot has become quite a skillet with a little over $1100 in it pre-flop.

I know Bob has big cards….but not a pair. His MO would have him re-raise again in last position with a big pair. No….he had something like AK suited or AQ suited…maybe even KQ suited. He could have an under pair, but I think he would re-raise me again with an under pair.

The Flop:

A Q 8 rainbow

I was first to act and called “time” to analyze what the best play would be here. Believing he has an A, if I check, I’m afraid he will think I am trapping him and check behind me even if he does have a strong hand, if I make a pot sized bet, he might let it go putting me on a set. I felt I needed to make a large bet, but not too large, he might think I am trying to buy it, and if he has AK he is going to assume he has the best kicker.

“$700” I said as I put my chips into the pot.

“Raise it all in” Bob declares with excitement, jumps up from his chair and shoves his chips into the pot. Hmmmm…….must be AQ!

“I call.” This was sweet music to his ears as he turns over AA and begins dancing around his chair.

All of a sudden there was a crowd. Players from the other tables come over to observe.

“Holy Shit….look at the size of that Pot!” I hear from behind me.

I turn over my Hilton Sisters and feel a small lump in my throat. Damn, I didn’t even think for a second he had AA, never entered my mind, bad move Mike.

“Set over set – classic.” I hear another player say.

The dealer brings the turn card………………Q.

“OH MY GOD!!!!!” The room breaks into pandemonium. The whole room is in disbelief, and poor Bob….his chin hits the table when that Queen hit the board. He was a broke man…figuratively and literally. The river was in consequential so I couldn’t even tell you what it was. The pot was pushed to me and I tipped out a couple of greens.

About 30 seconds pass and Bob blows a gasket. “What the fuck!?!?!” He stormed out vowing to never play again.

He did though, many more times. Bob…thanks for the action, and I really appreciate you paying for the Caribbean cruise. I just want you to know, I think of you every time I watch my 32” flat screen HDTV.

Oh yeah...Bob isn't his real name.

Friday, July 15, 2005

In the money...finally

Every once in a while, I actually make it into the money. =) I should have never made this final table. I was so short stacked, I won an all in bet when we were at 11 players which allowed me to get through the blinds and sneak into 8th. I'll take it.

Tuesday, July 12, 2005


I recently sat down in a 1/2 NLHE game. The game had a $5 kill if the previous pot was >$100. I had only been to this game one time before. It should be noted that I had left another game that had broken and when I showed up at this game, the sun was already high in the sky.

I sat down to a table with 8 other players. I had played with some of these players, although there were a few I had never met before. I knew the game runners from other games I had played at. They had been running the game for about a month now I guess. They used to be part of other games, but joined together to start this one. It is really hard to say, since it is so convoluted these days.

There are so many games around town now, it is hard to keep track of them all, in fact; I have stopped trying. By my calculations, there are some 40-50 games that I know about, and that doesn’t account for the ones I haven’t heard of. It is just absolutely amazing how many games there are now a days. The thing is though, not all games are the same. Oh sure, this one spreads NL and that one spreads NL, this one has two tables, that one has two tables. This one has dealers, that one has dealers. But when it comes to the way the game is managed, most games are less than desirable. What do I mean by managed? Well, a well managed game has a lot of facets to it. Is the game consistent? Are the rules consistent? Are the players screened? Are the dealers competent? Do they provide adequate security? The list could go on and on. I have found that many of the games running out there have bought a table, some chairs, chips, and cards and believe that is all that is required to start a game and rake in the dough. And while in my opinion, most of these games will be here today, gone tomorrow, it is hard to ignore that they do get players to play at them.

I suspect that the majority of players in Austin that play at these games have never been to a casino. They have learned most of what they know about poker from TV, the internet, a book or two, and oh, this one game they play at. They pay the excessive rakes of these games and receive little if any amenities for their dollars. But there is one saving grace that they do have - ACTION. Even players that are accustomed to a better bang for their buck will play at these places because there is just too much action to pass up on and the amount of dead money offsets the excessive expense to play at the place.

Hence, the reason I showed up at this NLHE game. I had heard that there was action at this place lately, and after a round or two, I discovered that there were some live cannons in this game that might just make it worth the rake.

The key opponent in this game was about 3 sheets to the wind and playing nearly every hand. What is amazing though is that he was winning nearly every hand. In a short 2 hours, I saw him amass about $1500 in chips. I had tried to tangle with him, but I could never seem to get any part of the flop when in a hand with him. I picked up a pot here and there but nothing to write home about.

After a couple of hours of this, the guy had decided he should cash the hell out while he was ahead – way a head. Now I will tell you that I tried a few things to get this guy to stay. Since he had half of the money that was on the table, I wanted the opportunity to take a shot or two at it. Unfortunately, he was not to be persuaded and cashed out.

I looked around the table and realized I had the second biggest stack now. I had bought in for $400 and had a little jelly, but not nearly as much as I wanted. =) We were now bouncing between 6 and 7 handed as various “dealers” would buy in and bust out.

It was about this time when the hand which is the purpose of this post unfolded. I was in the BB when I was dealt 10 2 off. There were a few limpers and the SB made it $15 to go. Now you must understand that the SB is a bit of a gambler. I had played with him on one other occasion and I believed him to be a bit of a loose cannon. One of the game runners had made a large call against this guy earlier, with only a draw claiming that the guy commonly bluffed. Normally, a raise from the SB would indicate a powerful hand because you are out of position, but for some reason, I kind of felt like he was trying to buy the pot since everyone in had just limped in.

I called the $15 and soon found myself heads up with the SB. The dealer brought the flop, 10 9 4 rainbow. The SB immediately tossed out $20. Now remember, I have 10 2 off – I have top pair with a truly powerful kicker. Something told me that I had the best hand. But how do I play it? Do I raise now and take down the pot? Do I slow play and make a move on the turn? I hemmed and hawed and finally smooth called the $20.

The turn card came (10 9 4) 8. My opponent quickly bet $40.

Hmmm…$40? Let me analyze this a second. In my head I am going through the possible hands this guy could have to make this bet. QJ is obviously the nuts here, but would he raise pre-flop with QJ? Maybe, but wouldn’t you try to check raise if you had the nuts hoping your opponent will bet trying to represent the hand you have? What about an overpair? No, I ruled this out because of the size of his bet. Truthfully, I thought of the $40 bet as a “Get the hell out of my pot and stop drawing at me” kind of bet.

It was at this time that I looked at the board and noticed that the river card has already been dealt….faced down. The remaining cards have all been mucked into a discard pile of cards. Viewing this I asked the dealer, “DID YOU BURN?” To which he replied, “Yeah”. One of the game runners then offers a somewhat sarcastic comment like, “No, we never burn here.” It was obvious that he was being sarcastic, in a sort of jokester kind of way.

Now, I have to tell you, I can only assume that he burned. I didn’t see it, I didn’t see a segregated pile of burn cards, no…all I could see was 10, 9, 4, 8 X where X is the faced down river card. Do I think he burned, probably, but it is a bit difficult to PROVE that he did, now isn’t it? Well, nothing I can do about that now, and certainly not in the middle of this hand to which I am trying to win. I make a mental note to discuss this action after the hand is completed.

I refocus my attention on my opponent, “How much more do you have behind that?” I ask.

He looks at his chips and says “$80”.

I think some more, I shuffle my chips and then declare “Raise”.

I had intended to put him all in, so I pushed $120 into the pot.

My opponent begins to become unsettled. He starts moving in his seat, counting, and recounting his chips. He looks at his hand, he puts it down……I know I have him.

While this is going on, I look back at the board in time to see this.

The dealer lifted the river card up so that he could see what it was and in doing so, the person in seat 1 looked over his shoulder and they examined the value of the card in unison. My opponent was in seat 2 and I was in seat 3.

Finally, my opponent says, “I don’t think you have anything, I raise all in” to which he put in his final $87 worth of chips.

I immediately called the $7. He then asked me if I had a pair. I turned over my hand to expose my 10 and showing I had top pair. He shakes his head and turns over 7 9 showing 2nd pair. Like I said, I had him.

The dealer turns over the river card and reveals a 9. My opponent has trip 9s. The dealer pushes the pot to him and that is when it happened. I said something like this:


The dealer in an attempt to defend himself said, “I didn’t know what he was holding.”


The game runner tried to apologize to me profusely, but you know what, it is the game runner’s responsibility to provide a straight up game. Even if there were no shenanigans going on, it certainly didn’t look that way. He told me that this guy doesn’t usually deal, that it was late, and that they had been playing all night and when you are tired mistakes happen. EXCUSE ME? MISTAKE?

Does that mean you charge less of a rake because you have incompetent dealers, or because it is late? I don’t think so. If I am going to pay to play, I expect to get a professionally run game that provides me the requisite amount of protection against potential cheating. If you aren’t smart enough to do that, I think I’ll take my business elsewhere. Exposing a card during a deal is a mistake, forgetting to move the button is a mistake; LOOKING AT THE RIVER CARD WHILE THE HAND IS IN PLAY IS NOT A MISTAKE, IT IS OUTRIGHT UNETHICAL.

“Some times you just have to roll a hard Six” Adama – The New BSG.

Tuesday, July 05, 2005 verwe quiet...we are hunting wabbits

A pre-flop raise thinned the field to 4 players.

The flop came 8s, 9h, 2s. Normally, this would be an action killing flop. But not for this table. No, the aggressive style of the players in this game made you think that they were holding AA every hand.

Bet - raise - Someone raises the amount of the pot. All of a sudden it's heads up.
There is about $320 in the pot when the turn comes: As.

Player A (who has about $800 in chips) bets the pot. Now Player A is sort of a loose cannon, he is very aggressive, but is not necessarily a maniac, he knows when he has the best hand.

Player B has about $250 in chips and is not as experienced as Player A. He isn't as aggressive, and he tends to call more than bet. He requests time, picks up his cards, shuffles them, puts them down. He stands up, he sits down. He is in a real predicament. Should he call? If he calls, he will be all in. He has already rebought twice and I think he is at the end of his bank roll for the night. If he wins this hand, he'll triple through, but if he loses, he'll be heading home. "Do you have the big flush?", he asks Player A in attempt to get a read.

Player A just sits motionless as he stares at the board.

After about 5 minutes of hemming and hawing....Player B folds, showing his Js10s as he tosses it into the muck. What a lay down.

Player A is all smiles as he mucks his hand while the pot is pushed to him. "Yeah, I had it....KQ of spades".

Player not in the hand, "Let's see the river card, dealer".

The dealer brings the river card, K of spades.

Player A: "Damit, I should have called!"


I know rabbit hunting has become very popular, in fact, we now see the rabbit cam on WPT and even ESPN. If you want my opinion, it is just wrong. Rabbit hunting should be outlawed in every poker game. Why? Because of what you just read. Player A was representing a hand which he apparently did not have. This is poker at it's fundamental best. Bringing the river card exposed his move and while it is possible that he had a Q high flush which would have beaten the J high, we will never know for sure. And that is the way it should be. If you don't call the bet, you don't get to find out.

Rabbit hunting is bad news for poker. Even if you were player B, what does rabbit hunting get you? Nothing but a feeling of being duped and you still don't know if you would have won the pot or not.

Saturday, July 02, 2005

Just one Jackoff!

holds a monthly tournament in South Austin. The tournament is private and an invite can only be obtained through a reference from a previous participant. It is capped at 150 players. The buy-in is $100 with unlimited re-buys for the first hour. Each buy/re-buy gets you 2000 in chips. You must be completely busted to re-buy. OK, understand the particulars?

This tournament has been running for many months and it only last night hit the ceiling for players. I played in it for the first time last month when there 100 players. (I finished 2nd for ~$2.5k.) This month’s record number of players is solely due to the fact that people had learned I took 2nd previously. “Must be a soft tournament” is what I heard one of them say to his buddy after learning of the news.

Despite all my efforts, I made it to the break and hadn’t had to reach into my wallet for a re-buy. I have been running kind of bad lately and so I came prepared to have to re-buy. That first table I was on had an interesting mix. I knew two of the players quite well as I had played with each one many times before. One other player I remembered from the previous tournament in which he was in the top 15. The others were unknown to me and a couple of them were quite novice.

TANGENT WARNING! Please proceed to next paragraph to avoid tangent. Have you recognized the difference between a poker novice and a live poker novice? They are easy to spot. You see a poker novice is just that. They are new to poker. They are learning the basics and they may still be confused by hand rankings, playing kickers, and terms – especially slang terms. But a live poker novice, well, this is a whole different breed of novice. You see this is an online player. He/she knows the hand rankings, understands what a kicker is, and can use terms like a seasoned pro. But when it comes to the mechanics of live play, they are novice. I am sorry if I offend you, but you slow down the game, you can’t count your chips, let alone make a bet without fumbling your chips. You are always acting out of turn, never know who is in, or isn’t in or when the damn action is on you. You see, playing on line doesn’t allow you to play sloppy, or doesn’t explain to you why you can’t act yet. It doesn’t allow you to throw your hand away prematurely, affecting how another player acts on his hand knowing you have folded. It won’t permit you to show your hand to other players, or bet out of turn. However, when you are playing in a live game, all of these things depend on you the player to watch what is going on. On line you wait for the computer to beep at you, in live play you must PAY ATTENTION. Only after you fold your hand can you stop paying attention. Then of course there is the self-dealt tournament shuffle. (Which reminds me, why do people insist on shuffling in front of the dealer when using two decks? Clearly it should be done behind. You deal the hand, you shuffle the cards you just dealt, and you cut the cards for the guy dealing to your left. Simple.) Now didn’t any of you 20 year olds out there play cards when you were a kid? I mean for Heaven’s sake, learn how to shuffle. But then I guess that is just part of the game.

At the first break I found that I had about 8k in chips and felt pretty good. After the break, I was moved to another table in which one guy had me out stacked by a 3:1 margin. I made a few hands and made it to the third break with 13k and 42 players left. Over the next hour I slowly blinded and anted off 6k chips. The table had turned very tight as we were teetering on 32 players and every one was entrenching their positions to make the final 3 tables. I too being somewhat short stacked was waiting for an all in hand hoping to double through. Unfortunately, no such hand materialized, although had I taken some substantial risks, I could have quadrupled through and eliminated 3 players had I called a players large raise which would have been all in for me. Not a hint that 79o was going to river the nut straight.

Eventually we get down to 30 players and I am watching my stack dwindle down to about 6600. A desolate feeling when the blinds are up to 750/1500. The table had moved into lock down and any large bet was causing a mass mucking spree pot after pot. I am UTG and I feel like I need to steal the blinds to pay for this blind round and decide to hang my hat on AQ.
Mistake #1. A short stacked, out of position all in bet with AQo deserves to get kicked in the balls. Even if it was the best hand I had seen in a while, I could have lived through the blinds had I needed to.
Mistake #2. Next time announce the raise loud enough for the button to hear you! After everyone (seemingly) folded to the button, he announced raise in a blind stealing effort. (*Note the player on the button had just won the previous hand and was completely distracted while stacking his chips.) When another player announced that I had raised all-in in front of him and that he had to raise that amount, he said “oh, he already raised? I didn't know that” and folded his hand…or so I thought. His hand was released in a forward motion, but it was not anywhere near the muck. Now, is it folded or isn’t it? What is the definition in this tournament? I guess if it touches the muck is considered folded – which it did not. At this moment the player to my left says, “he has to raise, he announced a raise”, to which the player in question retrieved his hand and said “ok what ever I have to do”. He reached for his chips and the blinds immediately folded saving him the effort. The floor was called over and they were trying to get him to agree that he was required to raise the pot as the player continued to fumble his chips trying to figure out how many he needs to put into the pot.
Mistake #3. Speak up when you think you are about to be given an in justice.
"He mucked his hand."
Player not in the hand, " He said raise. He has to raise."
"He mucked his hand."
Another player not in the hand, "It doesn't matter, he is all in already"
"He mucked his hand."
Yet another player not in the hand, "The blinds have more chips than the all in guy, so he has to raise"
First Player not in the hand, "Exactly, he has to raise at least what the all in raise was"
Floor, "Is there anyone else in the pot?"
Remember, the blinds have already folded in the course of this discourse.
"Then turn over the hands and deal"
To which I see him turn over J7.
OK, what would you do?

The dealer brought the flop: 8 9 10. My opponent had turned over J7 and flopped a straight. I was dead to a jack that never came…….